Unfounded Accusations

Given the number of compely derisory attack againt Nigel as Loco Sales Manager I have asked him to post his previous buisness experinces on the forum so that other committee members can make their own judgenet on just how insulting Chales comments have been.

Charles making an insincere apology and then immediately carrying on with more accusations does not really work.

For the benefit of other committee members I will again explain it in detail after each extract from your comment (in italics)

Eg I have only been aware of incomplete financial statements last dated Sept 2nd

The Treasury Report spreadsheet is updated once a month in arrears.

The September file you were viewing is the latest that Eric has posted as complete. The report is a live link to the file posted by Eric.

Occasionally the link does need a prod to update it and having just prodded it is displaying a few more entries, up to 7th October with the total being £7,838.84, less that the 2nd September. This is a glitch that I am trying to fix but although I do prod it on a regular basis it can occasionally lag a little till I get around to it.

Which is precisely why I quite reasonably requested access to the Google drive to gain a full picture of where as a club, we were all about.

To be clear . . . you, as Club Chairman, have had view only access to the Google drive since the 1st October 2023 – 25 days

Not an unreasonable request when the air is full of rumours about apparent lack of funds and quite worrying amounts going apparently on purchasing.

Let’s not pretend . . . the only person spreading rumours is you.

Also, it was information Chris could quite easily have made available on the drive IN "READ ONLY FORMAT.

The information has been available via links from the committee website ever since the Google drive was set up

Also, in answer to your persistent demands you, as Club Chairman, have had view only access to the Google drive since the 1st October 2023 so could easily view the master spreadsheet.

The bluebell collection . . . 

After I had spoken to David Foale on the Saturday I told you that as Nigel was not there I was going to make him an offer on the Sunday, once I had worked out a fair price. You then went to look at the collection and told me over lunch the Papyrus locos were rubbish and not worth more than £450 tops. I said as an individual you were free to make him an offer if you wanted but in line with our fair price policy I would be offering more.

https://membership284.wixsite.com/ools-com/forum/policy-discussions-decisions/ools-loco-sales-policy

For the record we paid £750 each for the Papyrus locos and have already sold one for £975.

Deliberately keeping me out of the picture. – Not true

I told you the Bluebell shop had locos for sale, told you as an individual you could make them an offer and even told you how much we would be offering.

I also consider it highly unethical to ask a member of the club to put up 4k as loan to purchase the said lot. If anything Chris should have approached myself (as the Chairman) direct to fund the deal.

Again, incorrect information .The club bank account has a withdrawal limit of £2000 per day. The 11 loco, 2 controllers & rolling roads deal came to £4,520, more that we could withdraw over the weekend. Whist negotiating with David Foale over the problem Andrew kindly offer to make the payment with the club refunding him over three days.

Charles – for clarity, Andrew was there whilst I was trying to agree a solution with David and so that we didn’t lose the deal offered to help.

I did not approach anyone to fund the deal and if I had intended to as we had already completely disagreed about the value of the locos what would have been the point in approaching you.

OK .if you believe I've a duty to make any apologies. Please accept my sincere apologies. However this a good example of what happens when there is out of date info posted up. Eg I have only been aware of incomplete financial statements last dated Sept 2nd and recording approx 8k in the kitty. Which is precisely why I quite reasonably requested access to the Google drive to gain a full picture of where as a club, we were all about. Not an unreasonable request when the air is full of rumours about apparant lack of funds and quite worrying amounts going apparently on purchasing, locos Also, it was information Chris could quite easily have made available on the drive IN "READ ONLY FORMAT.I totally agree that Eric is indeed among the most ethical of persons one could ever wish to meet. i consider myself entirely lucky to count Eric among my very good chums.Ive known him a long time. I totally resent any implication otherwise. i find it very odd that all these supposed open discussions,phone calls etal were going on in respect of the collection at the BlueBell. On the contrary, I consider it was somewhat otherwise, deliberately keeping me out of the picture.

I also consider it highly unethical to ask a member of the club to put up 4k as aloan to purchase the said lot. If anything Chris should have approached myself (as the Chaiman) direct to fund the deal.

Remarkablable . You have learnt your lessons from past experience, incredibly well Every i dotted. exceptional.

Only problem is . The really important bit.??? To anyone reading this , mainly our club comnittee, it all sounds so incredibly slick. No doubt. Every question answered and backed up to the hilt by the status quo in sphere 2 of our supposed club.

Problem is. For you Chris. Is the remarkable (somewhat mystical monetary figures ) you have mystically Cunjured up. ones things for sure. On those figures we probably Owe the inland revenue a tax liability. Which if owed will fall on all of the us in the committee and the wider membership.

go on wise guy\. you seem to have the answer to everything. Only, it will be . Its not my fault Guv.

Your very adept at covering your butt Chris. firstly. For whatever promises in respect of abundant future funds. The fact is we are down to very little capital in the kitty due primarily to your reckless spending.

secondly. No. the members of the committee cannot see the financial details as they are supposed to be recorded on the Website Google drive. For whatever reason(s) you have resrticted access to Yourself, Nick , Nigel and obviously the treasurer. HAve you never heard of "Read only access " available to the committe at all times. All the stuff posted on the committee forum eg Finance , Loco sales and shop sales . is mainly significantly and up until very recently totally, misleadingly out of date.

eg the last finnce report uo to a few days ago ended in sept 2nd with a balance od approx 8k. So what happened with sept 2nd to Oct 2nd and now suprisingly(Oct 24th.) As for the Loco sales there was virtually nothing. 3RD. Every time I undertake a posting. Up pop Dear ole Dave and Val. With very strong views against virtually anything I post. Do I suspect something particularly odd. The fact they mentioned the Blue BELL. I thougfht it was a lovely enjoyable event. Unfortunately,. Chris did his very best to cover upo the proposed LOCO purchases from myself. which naturally as Chair, I thought somewhat bizarre let alone odd and somewhat "SECRETIVE" Only apparently, several such as Dav and Val were aware.As you can see from the totally misleading statement they have made supporting this very odd and very overvalued proposed purchase. Whatever I write up . They seemingly object. Yet every so often they when it suits their ittinery, they turn up. To continue. Eventually I discovered where the items were being sold at a dealer on the bluebell site. I went and had a look. Most of it was total crap. There where two very play worn Papyrus Models in total rubbish boxes. Approx 5 to 7 items in total second rate condition which no self respecting collector would have given a second look. Believe me. i've been buying and selling Model Diecast and Model Rail for years. It was rubbish which in a vectis auction might just have cleared 2k with commission added. i spoke to Chris over a drop of lunch. I told him directly that I wouldnt have paid mor than £450 each for the Papyrys's. they where frankly dreadful,. Firstly Chris was pretty cheesed off that I had even found out about the potential purchase. No probs Another example of his total control mentality over the website, Combined as a deep resentment of myself as I had won the Chaimanship over his chosen poodle combined with his total unsuitability to comprehend the sustainable purchase value of the goods, to the available club finances, When I confronted Chris over lunch over what precisely the heck was going on eg Under any normal circumstances you would have thought (AND PRESUMABLY BELONING TO THE SAME TEAM) "Hey Charles guess what., someones offered us some Locos.Come and have a look . But not from Chris. hIS IMMEDIATE REACTION. IVE RECENTLY SUFFERED A HEART ATTACH, CANT YOU SEE.????> oH YES Chris I could indeed see. To sum it all up what did he do. He asked a highly valued and fairly recent member OF OUR ROADSHOW TEAM to back up the purchase (totally behind (THE OOLSC cHAIRMANS BACK) TO FUND THE TRANSACTION TO A TUNE OF £4000. I would suggest If David and Val knew about this (as they have just suggested they were fully aware) on the Whats App . To perhaps offer an explanation.

Maybe Chris "Answer toEverything" Oakes, might enlighten us/ the committee further. On the Whats App you sure have given him a one heck of a lot of rope. Finally to settle it all I suggest we bring in professional accountants. Let them look at the books, OFFER COMMENTS ON THE SOMEWHAT EXTRAVAGANT CLAIMS OF ACTUAL AND FUTURE FINANCIAL BENEFITS. We should the go on from there to establish the priorities for the next AGM. -Hopefully, This lovely club (obviuosly envied by many inc sadly within it will at some stage, get back on the Rails. Meanwhile. We have a return invite to my old chum the late (Sir Bill McAlpine) to a summer bash at Fawley. Anyone interested.

Thank you Chris for a lucid and comprehensive explanation of the facts. I look forward to receiving the requested retraction(s) and apology from Charles in a timely manner

Further comments from the WhatsApp group

Adrian Campbell

When the big stock Hornby spares issue emerged I checked the website for available cash and was shocked it had down so much. £21k to under 10. Also the "locos for sale" was empty. What had happened? Clearly we'd bought everything we could despite a log jam putting them on sale. I have no doubt they will eventually bring a profit but have we over-extended. In business this is called "Overtrading". In future I think Nigel needs to ask for authority from the Treasurer if a purchase opportunity emerges.

Nick Beard

I think you’ll find he already does!! It’s not like he holds a cheque book!!

Adrian Campbell

Fortunately we've got the spares for free but we might have missed an opportunity

I don't see a request on the Committee site to spend and then an authorisation like I do from Chris and Nick. Am I looking in the wrong place. It really needs Eric to reply here.

Val Price

Have you all forgotten the Bluebell weekend and how many hours were spent checking, phoning around, discussing and checking again before the second loco purchase was made? We knew the club cash level would drop, but all agreed it was within acceptable limits. We knew there was a long queue for servicing, but agreed it was an acceptable wait before they could be sold and cash recovered.

Everything was done properly and openly by a majority of committee members, treasurer & loco sales manager. This was an exceptional one off opportunity to benefit a charity and the club with a fair purchase price.

Eric Fenwick

The rules for making a purchase were clearly laid out several years ago. They’re on the club members web site I think.

I’ve been continually servicing locos for Nigel and returning them to him. I’ve just completed another 5 and will get more from him at the end of the month.

Working as fast as I can to do that.

Nick Beard

So there you are! No major problems at all.

We have merely, as a not-for-profit organisation,

turned some of our excess cash into product that will bring a much bigger return in due course!

Last year at Bicester, out of a haul of 7 locos bought in as a deal, one of the locos, a Papyrus sold for almost half the cost of the total haul!

Andrew John

The club has been in the unprecedented and fortunate position to buy 2 large batches of engines at an advantageous price, they will be resold and funds used to further the aims of the club. Furthermore we dont need £21k in club funds how are we going to spend it? If we only have 2 roadshows remaining then £5k is enough! Im happy that the appointed officials of the club are using the funds for a good purpose, if they weren’t then the rest of the comittee can hold them to account.

Adrian Campbell

Are the rules being followed Eric?

 If so then your misgivings Charles are misplaced.

I do think we could improve transparency though not because the rules are not being followed but it is a bit of a trawl to access all the appropriate web pages.

Eric Fenwick

The rules are very simple.

Have a read and ask yourself if you followed them. Especially rule 3. I

Adrian Campbell

Rule 5b and 5c seem to apply here. So, Charles if Nigel has posted a request on the Committee forum or got approval from Eric directly then the proper procedure has been followed.

 From a personal point of view in future for such large sums I would propose that a request should always be made in the committee forum

Eric Fenwiick

That’s what the rules say, and for any value

It is expected that Chairman of the OO Live Steam Club will conduct all club business in an appropriate manner.

This unnecessary outburst falls well short of the expected standard.

Having answered every accusation and query in full and proved that they are all unfounded then the least that all those implicated should expect is a full retraction of the unfunded accusations and a full apology.

For the benefit of any committee members who may not be aware Charles has not been happy with me as Club Secretarysince before the last AGM but seems to have finally decided to go public (to the committee) with his concerns.

As many will not be aware of these issues the first thing to do is respond to each of the accusations. The accusations or questions made by Charles are in italics.

We once had a total 21 k in club funds

Current status

• Bank Account £7,298.84 (with a further £1,173 to be paid in tomorrow – not included in any following figures – please add on at the end)

• Locos in stock (buy in price) £10,254.74 – Conservative profit estimate of £50 per loco (32 locos) will add £1600 – Total stock vale £11,854.74

• Shop Stock (buy in price) £14,930.40 - (selling price) £22,394.85

Current club funding status - Using buy in price £32,483.98 – Using expected sold price £41,548.43

Chris keeps the website to an inner circle if only need to know 4 persons – not true

• All members can access the ools.com website

• All committee members can access the committee site

• The club google drive is where we keep the working files used for the day to day management of the club. In order to ensure that some very complex files are not damaged access currently restricted to the three administrators, Chris Nick and Norman and those who generate or work on the files, Eric and Nigel.

• Following persistent demands as club chairman, Charles has now been granted view only access to the Google drive.

• The whole committee are able to view the relevant working files via links on the reports menu on the committee website.

Chris himself with total control of the website and all email info (which should be accessed by everyone on the committee) – not true

I dont understand this one. Emails have no connection to the website and I have no control over them

So precisely no one other than Chris is aware of anything ongoing on the website – not true

• In addition to myself Nick and Norman (as administrators) have full overview of the WiX website

• All members can access and view content of the the ools.com website

• All committee members can access and view the content of the committee site

• Thousands of pounds of OOLSC funds have been simply nodded thro for Loco purchases – not true

• Purchases made, initially by Chris, and latterly by Nigel have been made whist in the position of Loco Sales Manager. Every single purchase and sale is recorded in the Engine She Loco & Equipment sales spreadsheet – viewable at any time by all committee members via the Reports menu .

“ THE BUSINESS” who’s only intent is to secure the lucrative business side of so called Live Steam servicing

• This demonstrates a complete lack of understanding on the amount of work involved in fully servicing a loco. Anyone who thinks that a £40 commission payment for three to five days’ work (sometimes more) on a loco is lucrative is welcome to have a try.

We as a club now finance every reckless purchase with our precious upfront capital

• In 2023 the Loco & Equipment sales have generated a profit of £3,348.87. How is that a risk?

Just whoever agreed to give you Guys without an ounce of business nounce between you to exercise such a perverse control over our club.

• You and the rest of the committee/AGM attendee’s when you voted first Chris then Nigel into the post of OOLS Club Loco Sales Manager.

You have totally negated all the financial protocol set out in the original banking treasury arrangements – not true

• We have complied with all the club financial rules and have published all the transactions for all the committee to view in the Reports section of the menu. We have published a clear ethos on the way that the process operates (https://membership284.wixsite.com/ools-com/forum/policy-discussions-decisions/ools-loco-sales-policy/p-1~o) and as stated are in the process of putting together a Loco Sales Policy

Setting up a totally transparent website with total access to the harddrive and email by all the committee

• This just demonstrates your total lack of understanding on how the IT behind websites works. What you are asking for is just not possible.

• There are no emails as you understand them on the website. There is a messaging section which allows communication with the members who contact us with a question or request but these are not general purpose emails as you understand them and none of the committee would be responding to them. The requests relate to the shop, the Service and Repair Scheme, the Loco sales scheme and log in issues and are dealt with by the person most suited to respond to the request.

A totally accessible membership site with total access to the OOLSC Committee

• You already have it. Every committee member can access all parts of the membership site. If you are referring to access to the workings and back end of the site again you demonstrate a complete lack of understanding about how these thing work.

A total stop to all further Loco purchases and review of the role of Loco purchasing – why?

• The current system complies with the club rules, is overseen by several people, is visible to all the committee members who wish to look and is making money for the club. If you have an issue raise it for further discussion on the committee forum as all others do.

• We do not control how and when locos become avaialable for purchase. The last big deal was from the Bluebell railway, months ago. I am aware that the backlog of locos waiting for servicing has slowed the process dowm but we are now beging to make progress.

• We have just been contacted by a member with five locos to sell

• If we don't take a deal (at the right price) we may be a lomg time waiting for another.

An answer to who owns the Locos currently purchased

• These belong to the club. However, as an Unincorporated Association the club cannot actually own any items. Therefore the people who are looking after the items effectively become trustees of the club and are responsible for the items.

And where are these Locos being stored?

• Some are with Chris, Some are with Nigel and some are with Eric

How much each individual Loco purchased.

• The price of each individual loco is readily available on the Engine Shed, Locos & Equipment Sales Report

Precisely how many since Sept 2022 have been purchased and how many sold.

• The Engine Shed, Locos & Equipment Sales Report has a series of year tables across the bottom. The information you request is readily available. To make thing easier I have done a quick count. This is items (inc controllers etc.) not just loco’s

• 2022 Bought 40 – Sold 22

• 2023 Bought 64 – Sold 40

• Currently we still have 42 items in stock

Who precisely is going to be responsible to from make up the incredible shortfall in club funds?

• What shortfall? According to Charles we started with £21,000 and after a successful year have increased that amount to:

• Money and actual stock £32,483.98

• Money and expected profits from sales £41,548.43