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Hi Adrian, Are you agreeing with my post as well as Chris's, or just Chris's? Good luck with getting the information, I can't get most committee members to respond about attendance at Ally Pally in three weeks. How do you plan to get the information, will you put up a post on the Club website? I'd be interested to know, should you get some meaningful information, what from a practical point of view you plan to do with it?

Love all this marketing banter! What is perhaps not realised is that certain Hornby connectives have loitered around our stand at some shows and have not been happy at some of what they have heard from the front of show. Negativity of any sort is deffo a killer and I know which approach I prefer.

I agree with you entirely Chris. There are many who have successfully succeeded in running locos without ever reading the handbooks, me included. The fact remains though that most people who fired their locos up did not have a fun time and gave up, maybe after just one run. Sales on ebay mostly say "run once" or something similar. It would be illuminating to attempt a census of surviving locos. maybe we should try it. They will be categorised as follows: 1. a% owned by our members in varying degrees of sevicibility 2. b% by people who run them successfully like us but not members 3. c% brand new never run 4. d% used once or twice and put away by owner who was not motivated enough to continue but aiming to have a go "one day" 5. e% used once or twice and put away by disappointed owner in 'as new' condition I personally think the vast majority are in categories 4 and 5 ie run once or twice and still owned by either a disappointed or unmotivated owner and the big challenge is finding them and getting them to have another go. The biggest challenge (and virtually a lost one) would be if most owners were outside the population of exhibition goers, magazine buyers, model shop visitors and youtube model railway clip .viewers

Hi Adrian One of the biggest problems centred around the very survival of Hornby as an iconic brand. In 2008/9 .As far as I'm aware. The RSB wanted to reduce its considerable vunerability from expansive unprotected lending , as did all major lenders at the time. Remember Black Rock etal. Hornby I believe owned around 13 million. I could be wrong. Also, there were a lot of very bad practises going on in Far Eastern model railway manufacturing. Its unfortunate but hardly surprising that OOLSteam (mostly thro rotten timing) was always going to be a slave to fortune. Charles

Yep they're mine. Cheers Nick, glad you found them. You must have missed the post I made several days ago.

Helen will be pleased !!!

That’s a shame but it is for the best! we all need to keep fit and healthy.

Maybe add something like...... “ if you have any unused Hornby Live Steam spares please contact the club shop for further buy-back details” I would propose to buy them back at 50% of the original value!! Subject to item and condition. This way we may also recover valuable spares from the ever diminishing Hornby cloud! we did this a couple years back with a member (Gilivray) who packed in live steam. We ended up with £960 retail worth of shop stock for about £150!

We should in our membership conditions show a policy of "Retail Price" and "Members Price" and being a member should permit purchasing at the lower "Members Price" A condition of purchase should be that it is for personal use and should not be sold on for profit. If a member needs to dispose of items for non-commercial reasons they should first be offered back to the Club and/or the Club be invited to release the Member from their obligation. If that release is given no further items will be supplied. In the end the above may be academic and our only resort will be the suspend membership.

Hi, An update on loco sales generally, You may remember that I forecasted a lower result this year, and that may still be the case, but not as poor as forecast. At the AGM I thought £3000 contribution for loco and limited edition sales, Currently profit from loco sales £2800. With limited edition sales at 15 units, all profit and some payments still to be booked as not all delivered, So a further £1500 contribution to come there. Five months left of the financial year, not sure what that will bring. Maurice

Some further updates on this issue. Nick informed James that we would be withholding further supply. Hi James, I’m afraid I’m going to have to refund your last order on the advice of the OOLS committee. It has been pointed out to me that you are selling club sourced items including the items you have just ordered on eBay for grossly inflated amounts and we just cant allow this as our stock is very low on these and many other items and we have to keep a contingency stock for club servicing. Many club members have also aired their opinions on your dealings and are not happy. You may find the parts you need from other outlets but I don’t know how your luck will fair..! Rgds Nick James immediately replied and apologised Hey nick apologises i didn't intent to annoy anyone. Generally sold enough to fund my own repairs, just presumed as long as you guys got paid it wouldn't matter what happened after that. Alot of what i have for sale is used parts, and fair bit of the new stuff was left overs from peters, 2k tech and some from ac. Presume the ools own stuffs still avaliable for me and the engine shed? As this wouldn't make a difference to any club members. 😕 I then replied to James James I think it is important that you are given an insight into some of the reasons behind the formation of the club and why the committee have concerns about your eBay sales. The club was originally set up (see the club Constitution) to help club members who run live steam loco and one of the aims is to source and stock spare parts to guarantee the continued running of locos and from a finance viewpoint the Club is run on a non-profit making basis. As Nick says we have reached a point in time where the supply of original Hornby spare parts has nearly dried up and we are currently not in a position to source alternatives for all the shortages. The club run The Engine Shed as a service for members and the locomotives & rolling stock offered for sale are sourced and checked (requiring time and effort) by the club to ensure that members may buy items, safe in the knowledge that they are in an 'as described' condition and are sold at a fair price (based on current eBay prices). Again to see them appear on eBay at far dearer prices makes a mockery of the effort individuals have put in to support our members. Although accepting your explanation that a lot of what you have for sale is used parts, and fair bit of the new stuff was left over from Peters, 2k tech and some from AC we believe some of the items you have on eBay have been sourced from the club stock. If as a club member if you will guarantee that you will only use the OOLS Club Products to maintain your own locos the committee can make a decision on continued supply. I hope the above helps you understand that the motivations behind the club are not really driven by a need to maximise profit and I am sure you will understand why both the committee and a number of the membership are concerned about what appears to be profiteering. The OOLS Club has spent years developing a good reputation with our membership and one of our concerns is to ensure that it does not become tarnished by the activities on any of the members. I hope we can bring this matter to a satisfactory conclusion. Chris Oakes OO Live Steam Club Secretary

Chris if you thought I was misunderstanding that James had offered to make stuff; not me. Not under that illusion but I concur with Norman that he obviously has skills the Club could use. I agree with Mike too that we need to prevent people making "a quick buck" out of us but I dont think charging for membership would make a difference. We can still sell to "Members Only" and a condition of membership is that the products are not sold on. Chris it is good that you have had some long conversations with James and I wonder if it is worth anyone else having a word too (Maurice? Eric/Richard on the technical side) and coming with a proposal how we proceed. The particular thorn here I suggest is the David Palmer involvement. His input need to be protected so maybe he should take the lead in what we do.