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Hmmmmm,,,,I feel It does rather detract from the original concept of a super special Limeted Edition loco. The saving is only 20% of the proposed deal but would affect the value by possibly 50-60% a la Matchbox models. (One day it may end up on the market and a full package will appeal more than a split one) .....also so if we supply just a repainted body and a certificate,,then these could just end up on eBay as profit makers and never see a loco in a boxed rebuilt manner as originally intended. Less work for me though!!! ::-)

Hi, apologies error in the above, owed to me £1406, all detail is with Eric.

Which message thread is this in? I have not read it on the website. There are two distinct questions here. 1. What would it cost to get dormant locomotives back into club control? 2. What would it cost to create a new LS model? Looking at question 1, it begs the question "How do we find hidden locomotives" and echos some of the questions I raised in relation to the Hornby project but which have never been answered about how many were produced and where were they sent to (countries). A large advertising and marketing campaign about a buy-back programme would bring some locomotives to light, but exactly how many and from where, I think is any one's guess. When we have no idea how many there are out there, or where they are, it is difficult. Huw suggests a 9F locomotive. which was a 2-10-0 wheel arrangement. My suspicion would be that as the current LS locomotives are all Pacifics, 4-6-2, there could be fewer or lower cost implications in fitting an existing design into a body shell, perhaps a streamlined Stannier Coronation Class locomotive, than even an unstreamlined Pacific, where the boiler, body shape and crucially the "blue sky" between the boiler and frames which makes the profile of the original difficult to reproduce with the LS technology. From recent experience I have had with some engineering work I have had commissioned, the design and then production of something new, even new/old, is costly, even when it is a reproduction of a previous part and uses some standard metric size metal. Who holds the patents and the design copyright for LS? simply copying what Hornby produced may not be legally possible. Recasting some small, no longer available parts, is not the same as copying the complete inner workings of an A3 or A4 and dropping a new body shell on top. The tenders also are different, so there is a lot of design work to do around a "new" model, both internally and externally. These days people want their models to "look like the real thing". I still have my original Hornby Dublo Silver King. It was fantastic for the era it was produced in, but would not pass muster these days even for a start up. Just looking at the details difference between the Hornby model of Spencer (Thomas series) and my old A4 shows the order of magnitude change in external detail. As a train-the-trainers person, I teach reflective practice. My starting point on the design would be: If we were to start again with a blank piece of paper to design a Live Steam locomotive, what would we do differently to make it better? Hindsight is the most precise science known to mankind. We know that there was insufficient thought put into the material which new owners received in the box about firing and running an LS loco. The miniature marvels run well, but were/are perceived as difficult to drive. The fact that so much brilliant technology was sandwiched into such a small space is incredible, but without access to the manufacturing which was used, I think a conservative estimate for going from design to prototype would not give much change from £250K. I'm most certainly not advocating that we don't do it, or never consider the project, but think there needs to be a healthy dose of realism about what is involved and what it would take. Norman

Hi Mike, the loco is sold, Nick has been away and has not got round to taking it off yet. I have just bought another Scotsman, it is in good used condition, the box is as new and none of the accessories have been used. I will be putting it up for sale at £350, I have tested her, could do with a service, but the loco is undamaged, not crashed both steps in place and not glued on. I have not serviced her yet, so if you want as is, and she is for you and not to sell on £300. this will still leave £50 for the club. I’ll ask to Nick to have a look at the banner, Maurice

That means you’ll be probably paying for two then!!!

Postage would be set at £3.95 (UK) per kit regardless of contents. This is very average charge and perfectly acceptable in the UK. Overseas will always be more. A CD will not fit the package and as we intend to show video help on the site in the future this would be pointless in my mind. Help and How to pdfs are already shown on the site for those whoe need pictures etc.

I've ordered one too. Norman

I have had a reply back from Simon about the possibility of producing high temperature plastic bodies. Not good news unfortunately Simon Kohler Dear Adrain, From memory I believe we ended up creating new tooling or at least heavily modified tooling for both the A4 and A3 models. As for your request to run off other types of bodies, firstly the cost would be prohibitive as they would need new bolsters etc. plus sadly they have all be scrapped. Sorry. Kindest regards Simon From: Adrian Campbell Sent: 01 June 2018 13:00:27 To: Simon Kohler; Simon Kohler Subject: Commissioned job to supply Hornby bodies I seem to recall that when you originally made the Live Steam A4 and A3 you used older/redundant moulds (from Triang days?) just in case the high temperature plastic damaged the moulds. Did it damage the moulds? Would Hornby be prepared to supply a batch of bodies using the same high temperature plastic using old Triang moulds for, say Battle of Britain9FCoronationTranscontinental Hiawathaetc Kind regards Adrian Adrian CampbellChairmanOO Live Steam Club

I never said that you did. Bodge was just the word I used to make my point about your concerns. For those who did see it the box is right, the material and padding are right but the first attempt at fitting it into the box was not perfect. None of us have seen the finished product yet but with the discussed higher quality finish, more work on the interior and applying the badge plus limited edition certificate I have every confidence it will be worth the money.

Great idea on the seal sets and screws. A tool set would push the cost too high and if needed it can be bought as an extra item. Lubric-8 can go in but we need to watch the margins as this is a running oil not a maintenance oil.

Check out the under side detail!! The bellows/air canister goes in and out!!!! Amazing!!!

Agree. To be useful it needs to have the basics+. There is nothing more infuriating than to but a "maintenance kit" and then find that everything you need is an extra and it's just a marketing ploy. We also need to consider size and weight, although as I have said before, I have sotpped using rip-off Royal Mail and use iPost, who pick up and deliver, or for less you drop off at a depot and you could get extra things, like tools all in the same price, rather that pumping p&p up every time. Then there are instructions. I suggest a set of pdf's on a CD. CD's are almost being given away at the moment and would cost less than printing in colour, so factor the weight and cost into the overall price. Norman